Off Topic Post

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
erwin_01 said:
From experience (I work in the Graphic Design Industry) I feel that PCs are better than Macs. Unfortunately the majority of Graphic Designers believe they "need" to use Macs, despite that a PC can do the same thing at a cheaper price, a PC is easier (and cheaper) to upgrade, is easier to repair, and has more software available to them.

Also, from experience, I have found that Mac users tend to get confused when confronted with a mouse with more then one button.

What you're saying just isn't true in the real world, not at all:

1. There are lots of multibutton mice for Macs, including Apple's Mighty Mouse, so this hasn't been an issue in a long, long time.

2. Macs and PCs are similarly priced when similarly equipped. This is also something that's been true for several years.

3. Macs and PCs use the same memory, hard drives, etc., and the Mac Pro, Apple's "upgradeable" model, is easier to upgrade than almost any desktop out there.

4. As to software, this is true in terms of numbers, but not necessarily in terms of quality. For content creators, most software is available on both platforms. For video editors, Apple's Final Cut Pro, a mainstay in the entertainment industry, is NOT available on the PC.

One more thing: Every productivity study I've seen shows Macs are ahead on that score. I've challenged one of our forum members to provide evidence to the contrary, and he's failed to do so.

So I would suggest that you need to recheck your facts.
 

dbtrek

Technology Fan
Gene Steinberg said:
[One more thing: Every productivity study I've seen shows Macs are ahead on that score. I've challenged one of our forum members to provide evidence to the contrary, and he's failed to do so.

You sound like Michael Horn talking about David Biedny not being able to fake an identical Meier photograph. I don't have full access to the 'evidence' you provided as the report has to be bought. Nor have I located any free reports comparing the two OS's and productivity. Because I can't replicate an inverse of the 'proof' you cite (proof I'm not allowed to review in full) you're trying to claim a victory. It's not that simple.

Regardless, the two OS's can only compete where they have overlapping abilities. All of the areas where Windows has productivity applications and Apple has none are a clear victory for the Windows OS. In places where there is overlap a comparison can be made, but even this comparison will not address the fact that Apple users are limited to competing in certain fields.

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/25/AR2006112500045.html

Why go the Windows route, then? The best selling point for Microsoft's operating system is the unparalleled variety of software and hardware that runs on it. The diversity is especially deep in games and business-productivity applications.

If you intend to take advantage of that selection, or if the programs you use often don't have Mac equivalents, you'll do well with Windows.

It's hard to tout an OS as 'superior' when it can't even compete on all fields. We could claim that DEEP BLUE is one of the best PC's on earth . . . if we're willing to limit the competition to how well a computer plays chess. If we broaden the field beyond chess playing it's obvious that DEEP BLUE has several shortcomings. So to with Macs.

-DBTrek
 
J

Jose Collado

Guest
Mice with more than one button. Wow...that never gets old.

In this day and age I don't think the Mac Vs PC battle has as much punch as it used to considering you can run Windows on a Mac. Mac users are now getting the best of both worlds. I can slam PC's till the sun goes down but in reality, they both have pros and cons and as much as I love my Macs, I will have no issue using a PC if I need to. Arm twisted of course.

I've built some pretty decent PCs that have been virtually bullet proof with no issues. I just love the fact my Mac comes fully compatible with itself right out of the box. I only have so much hair left on my head when it comes to driver conflicts from internal devices that refuse to co-operate with each other.

One thing I've noticed is a lot of Mac users have purchased their machines because they need it for a certain task or profession. Sure, they could opt for a PC, but then, PC users could opt for a Mac. There's always going to be Windows apps that will remain Windows only. BUT, these apps aren't usually productive titles in most cases.

I use my Macs in design. Almost all designers I know use Macs because for a long time, Apple was an industry standard in design/print production. These days, you could get away with either platform.

Upgrading, parts and repair costs are virtually equal when you consider the internal devices of a Mac and PC are interchangable. I have plenty of hardware that isn't labelled "Mac" by the PC store.

Honestly, if it gets the job done then who cares what platform you use? I prefer MacOS because I appreciate the comfortable visual design structure of the OS. It simply makes sense. I prefer the hardware because it simply works.

Price should have nothing to do with the argument. Sure you could get a PC at a lesser cost...but...you can either drive a Bentley or a Chrysler.

Yeah...I drive a Chrysler BTW. A sleazy old 71 Valiant Hardtop. Reow!
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Jose Collado said:
Mice with more than one button. Wow...that never gets old.

In this day and age I don't think the Mac Vs PC battle has as much punch as it used to considering you can run Windows on a Mac. Mac users are now getting the best of both worlds. I can slam PC's till the sun goes down but in reality, they both have pros and cons and as much as I love my Macs, I will have no issue using a PC if I need to. Arm twisted of course.

I've built some pretty decent PCs that have been virtually bullet proof with no issues. I just love the fact my Mac comes fully compatible with itself right out of the box. I only have so much hair left on my head when it comes to driver conflicts from internal devices that refuse to co-operate with each other.

One thing I've noticed is a lot of Mac users have purchased their machines because they need it for a certain task or profession. Sure, they could opt for a PC, but then, PC users could opt for a Mac. There's always going to be Windows apps that will remain Windows only. BUT, these apps aren't usually productive titles in most cases.

I use my Macs in design. Almost all designers I know use Macs because for a long time, Apple was an industry standard in design/print production. These days, you could get away with either platform.

Upgrading, parts and repair costs are virtually equal when you consider the internal devices of a Mac and PC are interchangable. I have plenty of hardware that isn't labelled "Mac" by the PC store.

Honestly, if it gets the job done then who cares what platform you use? I prefer MacOS because I appreciate the comfortable visual design structure of the OS. It simply makes sense. I prefer the hardware because it simply works.

Price should have nothing to do with the argument. Sure you could get a PC at a lesser cost...but...you can either drive a Bentley or a Chrysler.

Yeah...I drive a Chrysler BTW. A sleazy old 71 Valiant Hardtop. Reow!

A Valiant? Hmmm...In those days, I drove a Mazda RX-2, one of the early rotary engined cars sold in the U.S. But I never keep cars longer than a few years. I'm too hard on them. :D
 

dbtrek

Technology Fan
Jose Collado said:
Mice with more than one button. Wow...that never gets old.

In this day and age I don't think the Mac Vs PC battle has as much punch as it used to considering you can run Windows on a Mac. Mac users are now getting the best of both worlds. I can slam PC's till the sun goes down but in reality, they both have pros and cons and as much as I love my Macs, I will have no issue using a PC if I need to. Arm twisted of course.

I've built some pretty decent PCs that have been virtually bullet proof with no issues. I just love the fact my Mac comes fully compatible with itself right out of the box. I only have so much hair left on my head when it comes to driver conflicts from internal devices that refuse to co-operate with each other.

One thing I've noticed is a lot of Mac users have purchased their machines because they need it for a certain task or profession. Sure, they could opt for a PC, but then, PC users could opt for a Mac. There's always going to be Windows apps that will remain Windows only. BUT, these apps aren't usually productive titles in most cases.

I use my Macs in design. Almost all designers I know use Macs because for a long time, Apple was an industry standard in design/print production. These days, you could get away with either platform.

Upgrading, parts and repair costs are virtually equal when you consider the internal devices of a Mac and PC are interchangable. I have plenty of hardware that isn't labelled "Mac" by the PC store.

Honestly, if it gets the job done then who cares what platform you use? I prefer MacOS because I appreciate the comfortable visual design structure of the OS. It simply makes sense. I prefer the hardware because it simply works.

Price should have nothing to do with the argument. Sure you could get a PC at a lesser cost...but...you can either drive a Bentley or a Chrysler.

Yeah...I drive a Chrysler BTW. A sleazy old 71 Valiant Hardtop. Reow!

I would agree with 99% of what you said here.

. . . but if we don't squabble over the 1% this thread is gonna be pretty dull.

;)
 
J

Jose Collado

Guest
Bah! PC's suck...how's that? ;)

I had an Rx3 and a 68 Beetle with a 13b...but they don't take punishment well.
 
J

Jose Collado

Guest
I just took a BMW 635csi for a spin. Always wanted one...and now that my Jeep has gone to Chrysler heaven I have an excuse to finally get one. I'm supposed to get something practical...pffft....a stationwagon...because I have 2 big ass Rottweilers. Practicality is simply not part of my vocab. I'm sure they won't mind...the Rotty's that is ;)
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Jose Collado said:
I just took a BMW 635csi for a spin. Always wanted one...and now that my Jeep has gone to Chrysler heaven I have an excuse to finally get one. I'm supposed to get something practical...pffft....a stationwagon...because I have 2 big ass Rottweilers. Practicality is simply not part of my vocab. I'm sure they won't mind...the Rotty's that is ;)

Practical? Well, relatively speaking, take a drive in a 335i. It's one terrific car, and a lot less money. Don't be afraid to test the acceleration. :D
 
J

Jose Collado

Guest
Test driving the 335 won't be an issue...paying for it might be a little problem. I guess I could always make sacrifices and lay off the simple luxuries like eating...breathing...you know, the little things. Ha!

Maybe when the show takes off and I'm rolling in cash ;)

I love my old cars. Parts don't cost an arm and a leg...well...to a certain degree. I also love the fact I can maintain the cars myself. Radiator died in the Pacer and cost me $60 and 30 mins of my time. Radiator went in the Jeep and it took out a sensor. $180 and 30 mins trying to figure out how to pull out the old radiator and then trying to get some sense from the Jeep's error codes. Apparently, the codes I pulled indicated it needed a new sensor, some rehab, a session with a support group counselor, a box of chocolates and it claimed I didn't appreciate it after 3 years of being together.

I prefer things with parts that come off with a few bolts and the occasional kick...Macs included.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Jose Collado said:
Test driving the 335 won't be an issue...paying for it might be a little problem. I guess I could always make sacrifices and lay off the simple luxuries like eating...breathing...you know, the little things. Ha!

Maybe when the show takes off and I'm rolling in cash ;)

I love my old cars. Parts don't cost an arm and a leg...well...to a certain degree. I also love the fact I can maintain the cars myself. Radiator died in the Pacer and cost me $60 and 30 mins of my time. Radiator went in the Jeep and it took out a sensor. $180 and 30 mins trying to figure out how to pull out the old radiator and then trying to get some sense from the Jeep's error codes. Apparently, the codes I pulled indicated it needed a new sensor, some rehab, a session with a support group counselor, a box of chocolates and it claimed I didn't appreciate it after 3 years of being together.

I prefer things with parts that come off with a few bolts and the occasional kick...Macs included.

Well, when it comes to cars you can't afford, lease. :D
 

maccam

Technology Novice
There may have been reasons that MS got the early jump, but the fact remains they've held the #1 position for a long time. Apple has had ample time to address whatever early advantages MS had.

As for productivity . . . it occurs to me that I'm the only one in three pages of debate that has cited any hard data. That being the case, I'm once again content to sit back for a while, confident that others reading this thread will be able to look at the data provided and come to their own onclusions.
:cool:

-DBTrej

I just returned from the northern latitudes with 5 weeks experience of using a Windows Mobile device with Bluetooth GPS to collect data for a GIS database. I can tell that Windows users have a different definition of "productive." We had several teams and about a dozen devices. My experience was considered positive because I only had to reboot the system several times a day. My partner was rebooting up to ten times a day just to get partial usability. Some members of other teams abandoned the device altogether.

I also deal regularly Windows Computers in the "office." IT staff can and do in many organizations I work with, force Windows onto users, many of whom would prefer to have Macs. Most users who claim to be satisfied with Windows know nothing other than Windows and over the computer-using parts of their lives have developed a very high pain threshold.

Finally, since we are off topic, most readers will know that there are commonly compatibility problems between Office files created on Macs and PCs when opening cross platform (PowerPoint is particularly bad). Why can't MS make fully compatible and interchangeable MS Office file formats for the Mac and the PC? Considering all the core Office applications were either created for the Mac OS or were Mac programs purchased by MS, and MS has had about 2 decades to get it right, there are only two answers to this question. (1) MS itself no longer understands its own code, i.e., they are no long competent or (2) this is just one more small (illegal) prod to maintain Windows-centric computing. So, as Windows user your money goes to support and promote either (1) incompetence or (2) illegal behavior.
 
Top